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Re: [EP-tech] Translations and xpages

Hi David,
thanks for your answer. Yeah, that sounds doable (should've thought of that myself...). I'll give it a try some time. My goal with raising this question wasn't so much about solving any urgent problem but rather about satisfying my curiosity, why this hasn't been done in the way I (or you for that matter) thought of. 

Best regards
Dennis

Am 03.04.2019 um 20:34 schrieb Newman D.R.:

Hi all,

Maybe I am missing something but If you were to set all the static pages
to completely use phrases, what is to stop you doing:

cd /opt/eprints3/archives/multilang_repo/cfg/lang/de/

ln -s static ../en/static

I cannot say I have tested this but I cannot think of any immediate
reason why this would not work.  If you either had static pages you had
not changed to use phrases or did not have the German phrases for a page
you would just see the English version.  I think this would be the same
as if you just copied the directory but you would not have to remember
to copy each new static page you created, which it looks like you would
need to do at the moment.

Regards

David Newman


On 03/04/2019 08:59, Dennis Müller via Eprints-tech wrote:

Hi Alan and Christöpher,

thank you both for your replies.

Regarding Alan's:
Yes, copying the same template to all lang folders (automatically) would
be a solution, allthough the question still stands, why you would want
several copyies of the same file instead of just one.
I see your point about RTL langs. I've seen other software projects
solving that with special stylesheets that are used if a locale has a
corresponding config option for the reading direction.

Regarding Christöpher's:
I understand, some things just can't be seen ahead of time. And why
would one make things more complicated than one thinks they need to be...
Also, +1 on charisma for the nerdy reference. ;)

Thanks for the insight!

Best regards
Dennis

Am 03.04.2019 um 09:47 schrieb Christöpher🐬 Gutteridge:

When we considered off-the-shelf internationalisation options available
at the time, they very much assumed all languages were in the same
order. This is why we opted for the named "pin" tags in phrases that
could be moved around between languages.

<pin> is actually short for lynchpin, and is a reference to
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Famber-the-lost.obsidianportal.com%2Fwikis%2Fsorcery&amp;data=01%7C01%7Ceprints-tech%40ecs.soton.ac.uk%7C4eee07527c804ac164ba08d6c7da6ffd%7C4a5378f929f44d3ebe89669d03ada9d8%7C0&amp;sdata=3YPU3OWLTgUfFVlwJI%2BOLEp%2B029nA0CmKqfu%2BM%2FVY3c%3D&amp;reserved=0

On 03/04/2019 08:37, Alan.Stiles via Eprints-tech wrote:

But you are able to use phrases within the language specific xpage file so you have the option to replace all of the hardcoded text with phrases and then just copy the same xpage file into each language directory for minimal ongoing maintenance overhead if the template changes (even write a script to copy the template to the appropriate locations?)
One concern I can see it that different languages may not fit nicely within the same template (e.g. right to left languages) so you would also need a mechanism to ensure the template didn't overwrite language specific xpage templates.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk [mailto:eprints-tech-bounces@ecs.soton.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dennis Müller via Eprints-tech
Sent: 03 April 2019 08:33
To: Christöpher🐬 Gutteridge <totl@soton.ac.uk>; eprints-tech@ecs.soton.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [EP-tech] Translations and xpages

Hi,

thanks for the quick response.

At least in the way I understand it, I very much disagree about the "significantly increased complexity". Could you please elaborate on that or correct my assumptions below?

Agreed, switching from the current to a different design would mean quite some work - and I am not demanding that. Anyone having a multilang instance is of course free to do it on their own and so are we. (Maybe better language handling would increase the number of multilang
instances...?)

However, having said that, the only "negative" effect of the suggested design would be that we'd have one more file max per static page. One could of course use one dedicated "phrases/static.xml" file, which would mean only one more file per language.
Sure, for english-only repos that means doubling from one to two files, but I don't see that as overly complex. On the other hand, the suggested design reduces complexity and improves maintainability for every language added. And it seems to work fine for e.g. PKP's OJS and other projects.

I see a practical problem in having several places where xpages can be placed (under "cfg/lang/xy/static" and under "cfg/static"). That might make things confusing. But other than that I don't see much of a problem. Can you help me understand your concerns?

Best regards,
Dennis

Am 03.04.2019 um 00:01 schrieb Christöpher🐬 Gutteridge:

Yes. I made that decision and nobody appears to have undone it.

The design you suggest would make your life easier at a significantly
increased complexity for the one-language repositories which are the
bulk of instances of EPrints.

It's not perfect, but I think it was the right trade off.

On 02/04/2019 12:26, Dennis Müller via Eprints-tech wrote:

Hi everyone,

is there a sepcific reason why every language gets to have its own
xpage files with hardcoded text instead of having one central file
containing phrase references which could then be placed in the
respective lang directory?

Example:

Currently we're having
- eprints3/archives/archivename/cfg/lang/en/static/help.xpage
- eprints3/archives/archivename/cfg/lang/de/static/help.xpage
-
eprints3/archives/archivename/cfg/lang/anyotherlang/static/help.xpage
that all provide structure and translation for the help page. If we
were to redesign the help page, we would have to change all the above
files accordingly.

So instead, couldn't we have only one file at
eprints3/archives/archivename/cfg/static/help.xpage that provides the
structure and contains phrase refs (instead of "hard" text) that
would be provided from
- eprints3/archives/archivename/cfg/lang/en/phrases/help.xml
- eprints3/archives/archivename/cfg/lang/de/phrases/help.xml
- eprints3/archives/archivename/cfg/lang/anyotherlang/phrases/help.xml?

This way, structural changes would apply to all languages at once,
improving maintainability. The same goes for all plugins providing
some sort of static pages.

Any thoughts on this?

Best regards
Dennis

--
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Universitätsbibliothek Mannheim
Digitale Bibliotheksdienste

Schloss Schneckenhof West
68131 Mannheim
Tel.: 0621 / 181-3023
E-Mail: dennis.mueller@bib.uni-mannheim.de

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--
Dennis Müller
Universitätsbibliothek Mannheim
Digitale Bibliotheksdienste

Schloss Schneckenhof West
68131 Mannheim
Tel.: 0621 / 181-3023
E-Mail: dennis.mueller@bib.uni-mannheim.de